(no subject)

[ricevermicelli]

Why must teenage girl notions of self defense start with "hit him in the groin" and end with "poke his eyes out," and comprise practically nothing else?

There is not a male born who doesn't guard his groin. They expect to be hit there if they expect to be hit at all. Especially if you're not in the habit of kicking things, the end result of a kick to the groin is more likely to be you falling down while some guy holds on to your foot than it is to be anything bad happening to that guy.

Poking someone's eyes out is (a) difficult, (b) slow, (c) gruesome, (d) really hard to justify to a jury, and (e) bad tactics anyway, since your attacker can still hit you and hurt you without his eyeballs even in the unlikely event that he stands still while you grind your thumbs into his eye sockets.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

In my late teens (1972 or 3?) I remember being told to hold my key in a certain way so as to be able to get it in at the edge of the eye socket in one quick thrust. At night I still sometimes walk with it held in the position.
The other thing to do was to slide a foot down the guy's shin, ending with all one's weight on his foot. That would be painful if somebody let you do it, but possibly not much of a deterent.

[learnedax.livejournal.com]

The sad thing is that many self defense courses don't go much deeper than that. A set of gruesome tricks is more likely to get used effectively on an innocent guy who catches the girl off guard than a real attacker. The courses are often lauded as promoting confidence in the face of an attacker, but I am dubious about the wisdom of instilling such confidence in those who are not actually able to defend themselves.

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

Ditto.

I have a bunch of teenagers discussing pressure point techniques and eye jabs in terms that make it clear to me that not one of them has ever thrown a punch. Anyone ever tries to mug those kids, they're going to get killed. The kids, not the muggers.

[water-childe.livejournal.com]

I was always taught to go for the throat.
Also, insteps.
Screaming at the top of your lungs in their ears is good.
The solar plexus is a good place to hit as well.
I had a guy come at me from behind in a parking lot once.
It was automatic. He didn't even have time to touch me. I brought my elbow back into his gut so hard and so fast he didn't have time to blink before I got in my car and engaged the power locks. I put it in reverse and sped away. Scared the heck out of me, but I was proud that I had reacted well.

[drwex]

I blame it on the movies. I confess, though, that I've never seen the generic "self defense for women" classes. My dojo used to run one that was pretty pragmatic and involved remarkably little hitting.

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

My first sensei gave a witness management lecture alongside his self defense lectures. "Pragmatic" is kind of an understatement.

Honestly, any situation that escalates to physical violence is exponentially more dangerous than a situation that doesn't. If you can avoid the violence, you will be much safer. There are cases when that's just not possible, but really, if you can avoid it, you're better off.

[c1.livejournal.com]

Actually, go for the groin, but hey, those hands of yours aren't doing anything, so might as well use them to go for the eyes while his hands are busy guarding the family jewels. When your knee is done with his nuts, go ahead and stomp on his instep. If you have keys, use them fiercely.
If having his cujones pushed up to the level of his belt buckle hasn't caught his attention, breaking his metatarsals will. (And telling the cops "look for the guy with a limp" makes finding him faster.) When you're done, make sure his nuts haven't come back down, his eyes haven't recovered, and then dole out some lovin to his other foot. Soft targets are good targets. Be fierce- he wants an easy target, not pain.
The trick is in *not* issuing one strike after another in logical sequence, but in unleashing all hell at your assailant as quickly as possible. And then doing it again until he stops his errant behaviour. (And that's the important part. Stop when he's disengaged- don't become Bernie Goetz "the subway vigilante." Continuing when he's curled up in a fetal ball is assault.)
A jury will buy self defence if you can show you're in danger of imment death or "grave bodily injury". In MA, rape constitutes grave bodily injury, as does dismemberment, paralyzing injuries, stab wounds, gunshot wounds, etc. (This is where it's defensible to shoot someone in the back- AKA "Stop raping my wife!")
Studies have shown that most perps are risk averse. Fight back. Most times (in the high 90%'s), the perp will disengage fairly quickly, wanting easier prey. Afterward, you'll feel better that you weren't a victim, too. Any cuts/bruises/etc that you inflict will make it easier to identify the perp in a lineup. And if you're worried about liability, don't forget that most criminals have rap sheets a mile long, decreasing the level of sympathy they'll get from the DA or a jury.
And take classes. www.aware.org has great ones that are cheap and fairly free of testosterone poisoning (though they happily teach men as well as women.) Knowledge is power.

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

Wanna tell my kids that? Because that's all stuff that I know, but they sure as hell don't.

They've now progressed to discussing their pocket knives as weapons. I'm fairly sure they'd only manage to cut themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

While the adage "any port in a storm" shows me up more often than I'd like, I still hold that you're less likely to succeed in your defence effort with a weapon you're untrained in using. An oft cited result is being separated from that weapon and having it used against you. (This is why weapon retention classes are as important as weapon use classes, and, for example, why cops spend a lot of money on triple-retention holsters.)
Get those kids into an AWARE or Model Mugging class.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

well, a mini maglite (esp converted to LED use for geek factor), make a perfectly legal "kubotan", and if it's attached VERY securely to a heavy keychain, could be used as an effective flail.

i won't go into self-defense details and other such, except to mention that guys have no real defense to hair pulling. it's shocking (imho) and stands a chance of controlling the head, which can lead to other antics (punch the throat out). okay, so i did mention it. look up "impact self defense", that should go somewhere.

as for pocket knives and so on, i have to defend them MOST vehemently - they're cool. in the history of man, people have carried small blades, and managed to not cut their limbs off for the most part. back in the day, it was a proud moment for a young person (often a boy, go figure), to receieve his first knife from dad (or uncle or ...), and be taught to respect it. EVERYone had a knife. it was a tool, not a weapon. it's a sad state of affairs when someone like a geek takes out a weensy knife (a pretty one too), to open a box, or cut cables, and have someone call the cops because he's a knife wielding maniac. cops have arrested professinal chefs because they found the guys knife-roll in his locked car trunk, on his way to/from work. sheesh. :P

for kids? i'd advocate looking up impact, teaching them awareness, how to yell "NO!" really loud and well (as well as "fire", "rape", "help"...).

about 5-6 years ago, before i took up kickboxing (bag training, not fighting), i looked for a self-defense course in my area for men. nothing. women? thrice weekly. inquiring into what they were learning, and if they did men classes or if men could join was looked upon with scorn and suspicion. now? they do have men's classes, not many though. kinda of sad (in both directions). there's also the super duper "adrenaline training" impact style classes - how to react calm and cool when you're in fight/flight - it sucks to put the deadly/crippling moves on someone that isn't actually attacking you. eek.

#

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

I am not anti-pocketknife. A lot of those are cool, and I have quite the set myself. I do not, however, delude myself that the knife I carry on my keychain (a mini leatherman) or even the utility knife I use while gardening is a usable weapon for me. I have not trained with these things as weapons. I have not trained with knives as weapons at all. If someone attacks me, I am therefore less safe with a knife than I am without one.

[superfinemind.livejournal.com]

Best self-defense advise I got was in a Western Martial Arts class for men and women intended to teach manual techniques, but it included things like, if you're going for the crotch, don't just hit and run-- hold it. But if the guy's bigger than you, don't even try; he'll knock your head off your shoulders.

But then, it-- advice/class material-- was also not terribly useful unless you're at grappling distance, or already in a hold, which I sincerely hope to never need to use at real-life speeds.

Teenage girl notions of self defense should start with, "Avoid him."

And, pocket knives? Please. I've been studying short blades for some five years now, and there is no doubt in my mind that my four-inch pocket knife won't do me a thing of good unless my attacker is really, really bad.

Kneecaps.

Wonder if Paxton Quigley would be useful material to reference them to? She's written at least one book on "how not to be a victim."

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

Quite possibly - do you have a link?

[superfinemind.livejournal.com]

Her page
Google search results

She's got the weirdest name on the planet, but I've heard good things about her books.

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

Oh hey! You have an account over there! Wanna go in and explain why the pocket knife that makes you "feel safe" doesn't actually improve your safety?

[superfinemind.livejournal.com]

Can you give me a thread link? Since a different crop of internet teenagers elected me their patron goddess, I haven't been to your side as much...

But, sure. ^_^ I may not get to it until tomorrow, but I'd be happy to.

[(Anonymous)]

It's an even weirder name because "Paxton Quigley" was the lead character in Three in the Attic, a sleazy 60's movie about what happens to a superstud three-timer. Do you know if she was born with it?

/CHip

[superfinemind.livejournal.com]

I have no idea. Nor do I know the timing of her ...events?

*shrug*